Curse

Lt.Crumpet · Aug 09, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

HOORAA HOOORAA THE TRADER IS DEAD!! from the very begining the dye trader has ruined the economy; now it will finally come back to a player supported economy!! time to die, dye trader!! the material trader is next on the hit list baby!

Lt.Crumpet · Aug 09, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

HOORAA HOOORAA THE TRADER IS DEAD!! from the very begining the dye trader has ruined the economy; now it will finally come back to a player supported economy!! time to die, dye trader!! the material trader is next on the hit list baby!

Zenos · Aug 09, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotspur

In the same place, in last three days? I do believe I spy a farmer.

Nope just helping someone power level. But I might be farming there now.

EtrnalXellotath · Aug 09, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i just got ANOTHER black dye today (6 since the big bad nerf

)

how many of you besides me have had double drops?

mine so far

black/silver

silver/silver

and blue/ red

ANY TRIPLE DROPS YET??

I definately got the blue/red... how bizarre! And interesting!

Night Daftshadow · Aug 09, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

Alright guys, below is what the problem is.

The fewer dyes the merchant has in stock, the more it costs.
--->
People don't sell to the merchant because he/she offers nothing of value in return
--->
The merchant runs out of dyes, prices rocket.

Same thing with the rune trader. Recently you can't even buy a major vigor from the trader until yesterday when the price hit 7k and climbing the last time i saw it. Just out of curiousity, I requested a quota to sell my major vigor and it had a value of 167g. Totally ridiculous! And I have 3 major vigors in storage. Yesterday I also saw black dye go for 37k at the trader. Probably went higher.

Ashika · Aug 09, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Any idea how long Anet has left this S&D problem unfixed? I've been around for a little over 2 months, and while my memory isn't the best, I'm pretty sure they have always had this ignorant system in place.

While this is the first MMRPG that I've played, it doesn't take much thought to understand the importance of gold sinks. If there is no way to get rid of gold, then it's value will continually drop. The newer the player, the worse off (s)he is.

Insert gold sinks. Now you have an inflation control mechanism. However, you have to do it right. Anet has failed miserably.

Traders, as a gold sink, are a failure because most players would rather buy from others for a better deal that always exists. Of course you will always find a better deal from players, but it is the difference between trading to NPCs and to people that a trader will look at. The question is, "Is it worth my time to try to find someone to sell to, or should I just NPC trade it?" Currently, the answer is almost always Y E S. Example: Last night I picked up a black dye. I ran off to the Dye Trader and checked his sell price. Quoted at 31,827 gold. I could sell for around 6k. Of course, 6k is pretty sweet, considering the last time I sold black dye I received 3.5k and 4k from players. Still, it was DEFINITELY worth my time to sell to someone else. 5-10 minutes and a quick barter and I was 15k richer sans black dye. A cool 9k more than the trader was offering.

Ok, so that was a lengthy example. Sorry! Now to the point. Player to Player trading is not a gold sink. If this continues, prices will continue to rise as the very rich will be willing to pay 30k for black dye at the NPC rather than spending time shopping. Anet and players are so focused/worried about farmers ruining the economy when the cold, hard fact is, their "economy" was fubar from the start. It's their fault, not farmers/botters/ebayers, that the value of gold continues to decline.

So Anet, it's time to turn off the stupid mode and fix this s**t. Keep supply and demand, but fix NPC buy prices to range between 50% and 75% of sell prices. The economy MIGHT turn around and fix itself, but it'll be so long coming that I, for one, will have found another game well before it does!

midnyte13 · Aug 09, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

dont the servers reset at 0001 hours and repopulate the NPCs...so that if there is no dye at 2359....at 0001 there will be?

GhostPoet · Aug 09, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

How much is green dye worth right now? I just got a vial of it.

Loviatar · Aug 09, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashika

5-10 minutes and a quick barter and I was 15k richer sans black dye. A cool 9k more than the trader was offering.

!

i sold 3 of my blacks to the trader for 26 plat EACH a few hours ago

now i wish i had sold the rest of them as well.

at least i caught the dye trader an hour later when he was selling silver at 226 gold each

Black Sunshine · Aug 09, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

well this sucks i still need one more black dye thou I'm not willing to pay more than 8k for it if that.. Grrr! I'll just have to wait for another to fall for me thou I've only found two in my guildwars career

Chillin-N-Killin · Aug 09, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

speaking of black dye the wife and I have been playing since the release date 3 months or so and in all that time she has got 6 black dye's sitting in her storage and I got 1!!!

EverBlue · Aug 09, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

I'm glad I bought 4 black dyes at 8k each. Some person wanted to sell me one for 15k, and since I only need it for my sandals and staff, I danced in front of her laughing. Little level 11 didn't even want to trade 4 Obsidian Shards for one. Like I would've done that anyways.

dannyg77 · Aug 09, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Sigh, I just wrote this long message and POOF, database error. Message gone...

My point was/is that one way to get rid of this gold inflation is to prevent gold from being handed from one player to another within an account. If a character is deleted, that gold he has just goes away. And add to that a maximum gold that a character can hold per given level (like Diablo did). On top of that, fix prices for Dyes and other goods at the market and make them limitless in supply. You got gold and want to waste it on Dyes - they got Dyes to sell you until you drop. That should introduce the gold sinks you were mentioning on your post, Ahika.

This game is great. And it is also interesting to observe how it mirrors society. Dyes selling for 8k 10k are you kidding me? For that kind of money, it better be a Bow with Nuclear Warhead arrows!! Not an item that changes appearance!! No one but you looks at yourself anyway. I guess it really is like Billy Crystal said: "So it's better to rook good than feel good baby, and you rook mahvelous..."

Another wild society-like aspect of this game is this hiring a runner to get you from here to there. It's set up a whole pseudo-economy around just that. Everyone wants to be run to the next place instead of earning it on their own. That is to say, just like today's society, kids/young people want things handed to them rather than going out and earning it on their own.

Nuff...
Dannyg77
aka
Calamity Jayne R/Me
Maddame Curie M/Ne
Murf the Surf N/Mo

eveler890 · Aug 09, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

the dye prices are stupid - just today i saw people selling black dye for 30k, but then again all the prices in the game seem to be inflating - i rem when i could buy any superior rune for my mesmer for 100gp now up to 1k-5k

i wish the items would not be so pricey - and that they would stop nerfing all the spots people try to farm at, seriously with everything so expensive how i am supposed to make money? lol well that is my input

Mugon M. Musashi · Aug 09, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i sold 3 of my blacks to the trader for 26 plat EACH a few hours ago

now he's buying black dye 1 gold each ^^

Shifty Geezer · Aug 09, 2005, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Why do we need money sinks and a dynamic economy? Why not have fixed goods at fixed prices? That's fair for everyone and you don't get some lucky people cashing in on economy changes. It's not like there's anything worth buying anyway (from traders at least). At the moment traders are a waste of space. They sell nothing of worth and exist only to provide gold for armour fabbing AFAICS. Make a proper weapon/armour crafting system with fixed prices where you can buy and make any weapon you want - then everyone's in the same boat.

Ashika · Aug 10, 2005, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Why do we need money sinks and a dynamic economy? Why not have fixed goods at fixed prices?

Because that would take the fun out of trading. You might not enjoy it, but there are plenty who do. Some will spend hours at it

As for gold sinks, I explained that rather thoroughly.

I like what you say about crafting weapons tho. Maybe if we could make our own weapon mods? That would certainly get rid of "GoDly 1335 w00t w00t bow for 750,000 + 69 ecTos." Not that I'm bitter!

I realize the game is skill-based, not item based, but what is there to do after you gain all the skills and complete the game? I'm not big on PvP, but there is that. The only thing left for PvEers is item collection. Maybe it's time they put some more thought into items; not more powerful items, just something more exciting. Tho...there is the summer update coming...so that should occupy my time for awhile

The game is great, the economy is most certainly not

Krank · Aug 10, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

I like the basis of runescape
Most of the "godly" items there are at a fixed price and are RARELY ever sold over the price and mostly sold under the price *give or take a few K*

The materials (coal and iron ect.) are at a semi-fixed price, this game has so many problems with escalating prices that fall to near zero the next day, *luckily many COMMON materials stay within 7-10g each* (rare is a totaly different story and prices are just as bad as dyes)

VGJustice · Aug 10, 2005, 05:58 AM // 05:58

an argument against the idea of Upgrade Traders that I've heard repeatedly:

"It'll screw up the economy, just like the Rune Trader did!"

"Just like the Rune Trader", eh? You mean, you won't be able to charge 100k for a major Vigor rune because people will actually know how much the thing is worth based on a posted fluctuating rate rather than your wild ideas of how much something is worth?

Yeah, I *do* get tired of seeing clean, unmodded weapons that I find all the time being sold for 1k-20k+, and for no better reason than it's max damage. That's the kind of stuff I *give* away.

ExDeity · Aug 10, 2005, 07:29 AM // 07:29

There's a simple solution to this problem. I'll go over it in steps.

1. Create a time machine.
2. Go back in time and purchase Guild Wars before a majority of the current players today.
3. Buy Black Dye when it only costed 5K.
4. Repeat step 3 about 40 times.
5. Keep your black dye for just a few months. Resist the urge to dye your "highly original" 15k armor.
6. Sell your black dye for literally three times the cost at which you bought it.
7. Once the economy is ruined, laugh when current players are forced to suffer for not buying the game a few months earlier.
8. Thank Arena Net for ruining the fun for Guild War's "Lower" and "Middle" class, also known as anyone who can't spend 9 hours a day farming enough money to afford enough black dye to win at this so-called "Trading Game".

Jesus people, it's THAT easy. I don't see why everyone is whining.